Comments ~ 2007: September

The first gripes about Harrogate prices to some pretty annoyed percussionists. Keep the letters short and to the point in future though please!!!!

A little let down by my Vision

I really enjoyed yesterday's open but I wonder if I am alone in feeling a little bit let down by the test piece  'Visions of Gerontius' in what otherwise was a fantastic and very well run event?
 
The result seemed just about right with most of the folks around me agreeing before the results were announced that the winners were either Cory or Dyke with a close field of 5 or 6 bands after that. 

So the test piece certainly sorted the bands out so, it you like, it achieved its objective as a test but it left me unsatisfied. Don't get me wrong it has its moments, the opening makes great listening and I really enjoyed the Macabre Circus like Section that was quite sensational when played by the top bands but after that it disappointed me and I lost interest until the final section.
 
The Symphony Hall is an excellent venue. The combination of a wonderful acoustic, excellent catering within and surrounding the complex and a team of staff that were polite and, in the case of the folks that looked after entrance's 1a/b/c, took a keen interest in what was going on puts many others to shame. 
 
Graham Rix 

Harrogate prices

I am competing in the Second Section this coming sunday at the National finals in Harrogate, and was looking forward to hearing some of the performances, but was horrified at rehearsal the other night to find out that competing bandsmen and women have to pay £7.50 for the privilege!

We have raised a considerable amount of money to pay for hotel and coach expenses and individuals have forked out over £100 each as well to help pay for the weekend, and to expect members of the band to pay to listen to other bands is nothing short of a disgrace.

I expect we will get the moaning minnies saying about empty halls etc after sunday, but surely a "Bandsmens" stage pass should allow him or her into the hall to hear their competitors, after all there will be plenty of room.

I am a great believer in the work hard play hard ethic, and after weeks of working hard on the test piece i will be playing hard with my £7.50 and more in the nearest watering hole!!
 
John Pacey 
Harborough Band   

A drummers (oops! - percussionists) response  

In response to Ernest Lomax of Castle Douglas, I would summise that he is a brass player. He certainly is not a percussionist, for if he were, he would surely know that a "drum" is certainly not merely "a drum". That's why they have individual names, like bass drum (that's the one on wheels that leans to the side, Mr Lomax) and timpani (the ones that look like big soup tureens). And what about the humble triangle (the name kind of gives it away)?
 
I was one of the afore mentioned percussionists at the Open, and I can assure you, my "drums" didn't just go bang - in fact, I did at least 4 tings, 2 booms, a chicky-chick, a tappety tap or two, and a couple of whooshes. Not to mention a duddle-uddle-uddle. We are very much a part of the brass band, otherwise composers like Kenneth Downie wouldn't write superb percussion parts to enhance the rest of the piece.
 
We are, in fact, the only section of the band who are expected to play our much rehearsed part on completely different instruments to the ones we use in our bandrooms. Thanks to the likes of Ray Payne, the time taken to arrange the instruments is far less than back in the dim and distant days when bands provided all of their own percussion.
 
So think yourself lucky. And next year, buy a couple of magazines on your way to the contest, then you dont have to watch us.
 
Julie Parkin
Disgruntled drummer
Reg Vardy Band

The Kitchen sink perhaps?

In response to Mr Lomas' comments regarding the snails-pace drummers I would, of course, like to extend my heartfelt apologies for our terrible behaviour at the Open. I'm sure all the shed-builders (for that is what we are) would concur with this...
 
In fact, what was Mr Downie and for that matter many of his composing colleagues thinking when blighting the brass band with wholly unecessary percussion at all? After all, a drum is just a drum. As everyone knows, we are only allowed in because we like hanging around with musicians and it's quite often a stipulation of our care-in-the-community orders...
 
However, we do like to think we are part of the team and endeavour to add to the performance. It's maybe a little insulting to infer that we are not.
 
If Mr Lomas were to properly peruse the perc parts in the piece he would notice that they were rather involved and there are a lot of quick changes between instruments. Therefore the positioning of these "drums" becomes relevant. If you can't reach it, it becomes a bit tricky to play and if we are to be part of the team one would hope we are trying. For example, I'm 5' 11" (don't know what that is in millimetres, sorry) and right-handed. My set-up is going to be different to a more vertically-challenged person who happens to be left-handed. Of course the pin-point accuracy of where we positioned the tam-tam (not a gong...!) was to do with the sound-world we were trying to create, nothing to do with actually being able hit the bloomin' thing in time!
 
Perhaps (and this is a point I've made before) to even things out there should be one full set of brass instruments laid out that all bands should use and not to forget everyone has to use their left hand on the valves... Ridiculous...? Of course.
 
To get to the point, we do our level best. Or should we go back to pulling the numbers out at the draw and carrying the drinks? (Oh Happy Days)
 
There was some fantastic perc playing on display at the Open, some of the xylophone playing was astonishing. I am sorry that a couple of minutes movement (I believe there is a time-limit anyway) detracted from your enjoyment of this. 8.6 minutes between performances at least gives people a chance to go for a comfort break though without missing a band...
 
Well done Cory, by the way. I thought their percussionists were terrific too.
 
Jon Kitchen.
Aveley & Newham 

Do people know what we actually do?
 
Mr. Ernest Lomas has seen fit to join (in no uncertain terms) what seems to be becoming quite a stream of people who are all in a hurry to criticise the percussion sections for taking too long setting up at contests. If Mr. Lomas is a percussionist, he should know better; if he isn’t, perhaps he might like to spend some time in the shed-building department and find out what’s actually going on back there.
 
Moving a percussion instrument a foot one way or the other doesn’t make much difference to the sound, it’s true – but it could make an awful lot of difference when it comes to trying to reach the thing in time. The way a particular band sets its percussion up is often dictated by things like the shape of the bandroom, the height of the players involved, or whether any of them are left-handed. Brass players rarely have to worry about such details; and they get to play their own instruments on stage as well.
 
Does anyone seriously think that percussionists actually enjoy spending ages setting the stage? Because I never have, but sometimes it’s a necessary evil. Some of the work that is being asked of top-flight percussion sections these days is highly complex and often involves playing a lot of different instruments in very quick succession, not always with the same sticks. From an audience point of view, moving something a few inches one way or the other might look pointless: from the player’s perspective, it’s the difference between playing the part and not.
 
So, to Mr. Lomas and everyone else who thinks the percussionists are just wasting time for fun, I would say – they aren’t. If you think progress is going back to the times when “the drummers on contest day were charged with picking the right number out of the hat at the Draw”, then you are sadly mistaken and I actually feel rather sorry for you. Full percussion sections make a massive contribution to brass banding, are firmly here to stay, and deserve to be given the same respect as everyone else when they are only trying to do their best.
 
Oh, and a good percussion section has an almost telepathic understanding between themselves. Don’t tell them to “get a life and become part of the team”, because they have forgotten more about teamwork than most brass players ever knew.
 
David Morgan
(Trained as a brass player, but have done most of my contest playing on percussion)
 
PS. I couldn’t be there myself, but I understood that the Open this year worked to a set percussion layout to minimise the moving of ‘big stuff’ around the stage…  

Art versus entertainment

In reply to Peter Denton's e-mail on art and entertainment: I couldn't agree more. The only problem with this issue, however, is that each time it is raised the argument gets polarised around the pro-entertainment camp and the pro-art music camp both of whom seem to feel that their particular preference is the only and exclusive path that banding should take. 

Orchestras can successfully put on an evening of film / show music followed by an evening of Bach, Bartok or Boulez; why can't we? Possibly because, in the public eye, we perpetuate the myth of the jolly, slightly socially-awkward amateur by dressing up in comedy uniforms looking like ice cream salesmen (I have long held a theory that just as the clown costume worn by Stephen Tompkinson in Brassed Off highlighted the pathos and tragedy of his real life struggle our Gaudi-esque uniforms epitomise our tragi-comic attempt to be taken seriously in the musical world) and, just as string quartets should never try to be "cool" in bobbing up and down whilst playing an arrangement of Eminem's greatest hits, we need to be careful, on both ends of the musical spectrum, how we project ourselves to the public. 

It is a circular argument to play arrangements of the Birdie Song and Hootenanny for 20 years in concerts which then, inevitably, only attract audiences that want to hear the Birdie Song and Hootenanny, and then as a defence say that we can't play more serious music as the audience only wants to hear the Birdie Song and Hootenanny. (Using slightly extreme examples there, sorry). Obviously the vast majority of bands have, as their core performances, to perform concerts of light music but surely every band has the opportunity at some point to schedule a work that challenges both the band and audience alike. 

Possibly the issue here is a question of awareness within the bands themselves of the music available on the market. I have no doubt that some of the highly respected names in banding. could put a variety of fantastic new concert programmes together for bands of any section for any occasion, from church fete to serious arts festival, but no band can afford to take risks on buying new music at £30, £40, £50 pound a pop without at least some knowledge of what they are getting. We get plenty of recordings of new music for Championship section bands but where are the 4th and 3rd section bands expected to find out about the quality new work out there suitable for them? 

Maybe 4 Bars est could have a "library review" section where players can add pieces and reviews which, over time, could build into a reference library of works assessed by players, conductors and listeners or an article could be run where top conductors could be asked to select a concert programme of new music suitable for each section. It would be an interesting read if nothing else. The same could be done for serious music as well as new music and, whilst I am not saying that we should all be playing
Stockhausen in next year's town carnival, as a good first step what audience would not enjoy a piece such as "Solitaire" (good as it is) substituted for "In Perfect Peace" and, if we have to wait another year for the slow movement from Simpson's "The Four Temperaments" to be dug out, then so be it.

In an age where any audience is so media savvy and sophisticated in their knowledge of, and exposure to, such a wide variety of marketing techniques we need to tread very carefully as to how we want to be perceived. And, therein, lies another issue; do we all want to be perceived in the same way? Obviously not - but, do we all want to be given the respect that the effort we put into banding deserves, I would assume the answer is yes, and if that is the case we should take a collective responsibility to be heard, viewed and perceived in a manner worthy of the musical respect that we strive for.

Dylan Richards
Market Harborough 

Bands tending towards the comfort zone

I agree completely with Pete Denton's excellent article on the subject of arts or entertainment at the Great Northern Brass Arts Festival. Whilst on the whole the music was enjoyable enough to listen to, I feel there was too much 'lighter' music and in particular music that would have been better suited to Brass in Concert. A high proportion of the music featured was transcriptions, and I question what this would have looked like to someone attending their first brass band concert - to me it would have suggested a lack of repertoire within the movement, which as we know is far from the truth. 

Whilst there is nothing wrong with transcriptions, and in fact there have been a good number of successful ones published over the years for the medium, they cannot be 100% authentic representations of the original music due to the difference in instrumentation and tone colour etc, even if they are augmented in some way. A brass band playing big band music will never sound like a big band, so surely it would be better if we focussed on what brass bands do best? For example would it not be better for a euphonium to be a euphonium rather trying to imitate a saxophone?

There have been some fantastic test pieces and original compositions written over the years which we never hear anymore and which are unique to the movement. Surely an arts festival would be the ideal place to showcase this type of music, and also encourage up and coming composers by championing their music on such occasions? Of course this was the case with the premiere of Paul Lovett-Cooper's excellent 'Vitae Aeternum', but it would have been nice to hear more premieres such as this.

I feel that there is a tendency sometimes to stay in the comfort zone and give the audience what they want rather than challenging them, and I'm sure this would be more rewarding even if there were a few people who came away thinking 'what was all that about'?! It is after all the way that the orchestral world has gone in the 20th and 21st centuries, even if the music of the greats such as Mozart and Brahms is still performed today. However the difference is that it is performed authentically, with the original instrumentation and often using period instruments. Perhaps it is why the brass band movement doesn't get the credit it deserves, because after all, there are a good number of players within the movement who would compare with the very best of their orchestral counterparts.

The Proms was an excellent first step to achieving more credibility outside the movement, but surely events such as the Great Northern Brass Arts Festival are an ideal opportunity of further boosting the movement's reputation?

Andrew Wainwright 

Where to find that little black number

The enquiry from Jessica re a `Little Black Number` at the recent British Open was probabbly regarding the coloured trumpets we had for sale on our First Brass trade stand, unfortunately due to restrictions imposed by Symphony Hall all exhibitors had to start clearing away around 5pm. 

We do have these instruments in stock at the shop so give us a call on 0845 170 1124 or 01604 677664 and we will sort one out for you.

Shawn Pagington
Managing Director First Brass Limited

Will the Open Close? 

For the sake of this argument let us disregard this years Test piece and the adjudicators verdict consigning both to history and the foibles of banding and address the very serious problem of falling audience numbers. [Bums on seats]. My wife and I  have attended every Open Championship since 1963 & 1955 respectively and have never witnessed such a poor turn out throughout the day in the hall, the organisers may claim to have sold all the seats but the fact is that 15 bands played to an auditorium that was about 30% of capacity and the other three bands increased this figure to around 50%. We seem to have solved the problem of audience surges for named bands there was very little capacity difference all day.

The question is why, are the public not prepared any more to listen to some of the finest bands in the world all playing the same piece, are there too many performances, is the test piece too long or is it that the paying public have lost confidence in the organisers, who have been taking them for granted for several years in the following areas.

The Mortimer’s fail to publish at the Open the date that people will be able to purchase tickets for the following years contest, they do not even inform the Box Office in Birmingham until a few days before tickets go on sale, people are fed up of spending time and money telephoning Birmingham Box office.
I know of no other organisation that keeps the opening day of ticket sales a secret

The Contest Stage management is non existent, after each performance it allows each band to milk the applause endlessly regardless of the standard of performance, the conductors summons almost every player in the band to take a personal bow before asking the whole band to stand.

Then the audience is bored stiff by the antics of following bands the percussion section who seriously believe they are the chosen ones [even though one drummer this year could not be bothered to wear a jacket for the performance] they take an eternity to set up, placing a drum or a gong at stage centre believing it will give a completely different sound if the same equipment is moved 12 inches [300mm to the youth] stage left.  Its time they got a life and became part of the team, A drum’s a drum - it makes a bang. Why do the contesting authorities allow such time wasting?

Finally, because he has done nothing to manage the efficient change over of the bands Robert Kerwick now compounds the problem by waiting for a signal from the conductor, then announces to the adjudicators that band no 4 will at last play, then wishes them good luck, the adjudicators then change the light signal to green and the next performance starts. I know that adjudicators are sometimes deaf but I was not aware they were so short of wind that they could not blow a whistle to indicate they were ready as they used to do.

The days of the contest controller actually controlling the bands as was the case a few years ago for example at Belle Vue are long gone. 24 bands used to play between 1100am and at 1700hrs allowing sufficient time for the result ceremony, a broadcast in the city at 1830 and the hall staff to prepare for the nights wrestling matches starting at 1900. The main difference in those days was that the drummers on contest day were charged with picking the right number out of the hat at the Draw. Oh Happy Days.

Last Saturdays test piece was approx. 18mins in length which equates to 324mins or 5.4hrs, the first band took the stage at 11.00, the last just completed there performance around 19.00hrs  [8hrs total elapsed time] so 2.6hrs was lost in changeovers which is unacceptable, 75% of that time was spent watching percussionists move things around a stage, faster than Pickfords Removal men I grant you, but just as interesting as watching paint dry.

The organisers must renew the confidence of the paying public by taking radical action immediately to prevent further haemorrhaging of audience numbers and without further destroying the traditions of the Open championships, which in the great days at Belle Vue, Manchester regularly attracted around 4000 people.

A good start would be to announce six Golden rules:

1. The date when one can purchase tickets for the following years contest should be printed in the programme at the previous years competition .

2. The maximum number of bands that will be invited and the playing time duration of the test piece should be printed in the previous years programme.

3. The interval between bands should be limited to 5minutes, for example [15min playing time plus 5 min changeover equals 3 bands per hour].  A band that contravenes this rule would be disqualified.

4. Three adjudicators should be screened from the auditorium [boxed] and placed in different locations within the hall to prevent all contact between each until the results have been announced.

5. The results of each independent adjudicator would be given to the contest controller at the end of the day who would appoint the first six bands points, 10 for a win 6 for second 4 for third and 3.2.1 for the 4,5,6th. These points should be added together from each adjudicator would then produce a winning band using a transparent system.

6. The spokesman for the adjudicators can then say a few words explaining his reasons why the band that won played better than the others

The first three rules are paramount if the organisers want to treat the audience fairly, allowing them to plan their day, book an evening meal, organise travel arrangements and generally have a life on the Saturday evening, in addition the contest would run more efficiently be more enjoyable and generate more excitement whilst listing to excellent music than the current stop start organisational farce that this contest has become.

Ernest Lomas
Castle Douglas 

Brilliant but baffled

I must say how refreshing it is to see Cory overtake Black Dyke at the top of the rankings, hopefully this will liven things up and make for a cracking contest in London as both bands seek to end the year at top spot. 

However, some of the other movements in the top 20 have left me fairly baffled! 

Hepworth's 8th place at the Open seems to have lost them about 30 points (!) and despite Frickley finishing a whole 4 places lower in 12th spot, the gap between the two bands has closed! If this is a case of points from older contests falling 'off the radar' may I suggest the system needs reviewing since it obviously gives rise to absurdities. I'm struggling to think why, even if it is a case of old contests droppping off the chart, the gap would have closed. 

Surely it is an affront to common sense that one band beats another comfortably at a major contest and the gap between them in the rankings actually diminishes! Well done to Desford though, a fine band this year. 

H. Smythe 
Chiswick 

Disappointment
 
What a disappointment :  no i-pod music of the British Open, only comments.
 
Alko Driest

4BR Reply:
We did ask the BBC but were very politely refused on this occassion. 

Looking for a little black number

I was at the British Open on Saturday (Congratulations Cory!) and while I was recovering from my mammoth listening session, I had a look around the trade stands. On one they were selling coloured trumpets (red, blue & black). 

One of these would be perfect for alittle project I'm working on, but before I managed to do anything sensible (like buy it or at least get the name of the trade stand!), I had to rush off to listen to Dyke & Cory. By the time I made it back after the results, the stands had packed up and left (who can blame them,twas along ole day!) and I'd missed my chance.

Could anyone tellme how to get in touch with this particular company? There's a sale in it for them! 

Jessica Tredrea

4BR Reply:
Anyone help?

YBS - Frozen in Time

This guy right in the middle looks very much like Håvard Bøe. He plays tenor horn in the Stavanger Brass Band, Norway now, but at that time I believe he was the repiano cornet player of YBS.
 
Christian Lura

Well done Ian!

Ian Bentbroad has hit the nail on the head. Brass Bands need more exposure. The days of Best of Brass & Granada Band of the Year have gone, so we need to grab every chance we can to promote our movement.

If you can't make it to The Lowry. Go and watch/listen when King Cotton opens on Broadway. Break a leg Brownbill. Bravo.

Richard Walker

A question of art or entertainment?

I've just been reading Malcolm Woods' review of the Great Northern Brass Arts Festival and wonder if the bands taking part have missed an important word in the festival's title.  It's a brass ARTS festival – so why did they programme brass ENTERTAINMENTS programmes?

For me there is a huge difference between art and entertainment.  I'm not saying that any one of them is more valid as a type of performance - they're different things that serve different functions.  Art is about challenging people through intellectual stimulation, entertainment is about relaxation and enjoyment.  They are not mutually exclusive - it is possible to be entertained by art and to by stimulated by entertainment but there is a definite difference in primary motivation.  Art usually has a message to communicate - a message that requires concentration and can be perceived at a number of different levels.  Art is generally 'deeper' (i.e. more intense) than entertainment.

In brass band terms, it's probably easiest to think of it as the difference between John Pickard's "Gaia Symphony" and Elgar Howarth's "Mr Lear's Carnival."  Both composers are experienced and very well educated musicians of huge artistic integrity but these compositions have been written with completely different motivations.  John Pickard created a huge piece of serious art music, Elgar Howarth created a short and entertaining piece which also stimulates (because it is cleverly written) but which I could never describe as art (and I don't think he intended as a serious artistic statement either).

If I was buying tickets for a Brass Arts Festival, I would expect performances to include mainly the more serious art music and not the sorts of programmes that bands would give at any of their normal concerts.  It's not as if we're lacking in repertoire either - many of our test pieces by established mainstream composers could fall into this category and a huge number of other works exist.  Grimethorpe famously commissioned many works in the 1970s and early 1980s, as has the National Youth Brass Band of Wales consistently since it was formed in the 1980s.  I am sure that other bands have also commissioned serious art music too.  Many of these commissions now lie in libraries, hardly being performed and deserve to be revived.

I'm not saying that we need to stop doing the great job we do as entertainers but I think we need to add to this by demonstrating to the wider musical community that we also have a wealth of good quality art music and we're not afraid to perform it!

It was a major step to be given significant space in a day dedicated to brass at this year's Proms.  Don't we have a collective responsibility, as a brass band movement, to build on that and add to our portfolio? Wouldn't it be great if every band in Britain did one concert a year dedicated to art music?  It's easy to think that it's difficult for audiences, but in my experience, audiences can appreciate good quality art music if they are helped to understand it (through accessible programme notes or a short spoken explanation before the performance).

Pete Denton

Right or wrong in Scotland

Doing things right or Doing the right thing…. That is the challenge facing any organisation these days, an uncomfortable question for us all but contests are contests and Rules ensure fair play for all, don’t they?
 
The issue on “rumours of internal squabbles and in house arguments that has led to the resignation of their second President in as many years” must not be confused with the Development programme and excellent general activities of SBBA.  It was ONE event that had an issue, it was up to SBBA to report on the issue and bands had their appeal time of course after the contest to challenge or to question the result, then its case closed. BIG learning experience I’m sure but their investigation will obviously make a difference and remind everyone that’s why the rules are there and that’s why the registration process is there, to ensure fair play for all and remove the need for intervention.
 
What steps do we need to take to make a difference and improve banding? SBBA are well on the way on this, so OK, the recent event shot a few holes in the system, communication problem with one set of Rules for all with totally Transparent springs to mind, but what is “make a difference and improve banding” Its not bowing down to who ever shouts loudest at contests no matter what band they are, its not continuing to relax rules, its not increasing the registered players to 40 (still 35 in Scotland as it was believed this would reduce the amount of bands in Scotland) and its not increasing guest players requests.
 
Any change in the system available to bands means the find a new way to push it to the limit, its human nature unfortunately.
 
It is a disturbing thought that we may be working very diligently and effectively but if we are not doing the right things we may not improve the situation at all. Any organisation needs to ensure the loudest voices don’t dictate, direction is something that is discussed, agreed on and developed, and ensuring the outcome is worth the effort in the first place before any changes take place.  
 
Neil Watson 
Northern Counties Brass band Association  

 Lakeside woes?

Having  read the review if the Lakeside contest I was interested to read the comments of my near neighbour Paul Wilkinson regarding borrowed players. On the day Strata made a rather inaccurate complaint regarding the numbers and status of borrowed players within the Stannington lineup. 

It was stated that there were 6 'Championship' players performing for Stannington which was patently untrue. There were 3 players registered with Championship section bands and none of these players played a solo, neither were they featured.

It is true that I have played for a number of 'top' bands and the bass trombone player, Adam Foy, was previously with Stocksbridge, Grimethorpe and he was a member of the excellent Harlequin Brass, as was I, however both of us have been registered members of Stannington for some months prior to this event.

Stannington's victory was richly deserved and it would have been to Strata's credit had they acknowledged the better band on the day.
 
Andrew Platts

Euphonium Player of the Year

I think I read somewhere on 4barsrest  that someone wanted a list of the winners of The Euphonium Player of the Year. Here they are, but please note that  the Shield was not awarded 1995, 1998, 2003, 2005, 2006.
 
1979: Barrie Perrins U.K.
1980: David Werden USA
1981: Trevor Groom UK
1982 :Bob Childs UK
1983: Jean - Pierre Chevailler Switzerland
1984: Lyndon Baglin UK
1985: Nick Childs UK
1986: Steve Mead UK
1987: John Clough UK
1988: John Stark UK
1989: Brian Bowman USA
1990: Billy Miller UK
1991: Derek Kane UK
1992: Wendy Picton UK
1993: Steve Mead UK
1994: Robin Taylor UK
1995:  not awarded
1996: Shoichiro Hokazono Japan
1997: Morgan Griffiths UK
1998: not awarded
1999: Sverre Olsrud Norway
2000: David Childs UK
2001: David Thornton UK
2002: Riki McDonnell New Zealand
2003: not awarded
2004: David Childs UK
 
How do I know? Because I've seen the Shield at my son David's house. 
 
Robert Childs

King Cotton - "A triumph!"

If there is one person who is putting something back into the banding world, it has to be Ian Brownbill. I have known Ian for so many years that I have lost count, but over the last 5/6 years he has shared a desire and passion of writing a play about the cotton trade featuring a brass band. 

However this was never going to be some local church feature he only went and made it so professional that he got several famous people involved and then booked out the Lowry Theatre for a 10 night spell. 

I attended the first night last night and believe me this is a night out that any band person should attend. It is widely understood that band people don't support other band people but for the sake of a very talented person putting something back into banding it would be great if people could support Ian and the players of the Ashton-Under-Lyne Band.

Ian himself acts in the production and for a non actor he does fantastically well, but more importantly he picks up his cornet and leads the band in most of the music and I must say it is nice to hear him play again. OK I could rattle on about Ian even more but I just want to make it straight to the point. Bands people get the Open out of the way and then go and support Ian at the Lowry, banding unfortunately is not supported enough nowadays.

All the best to Ian Brownbill and the Ashton Band.

The Lowry, Pier 8, Salford Quays, M50 3AZ Telephone: 0870 787 5780
12th Sept - 22nd Sept

Ian Broadbent 

ABBA  and the Performance Assessment Criteria 

As part of the on-going 'contesting' debate, a September 11th News Item makes interesting reading. It is reported that the Executive of ABBA has re-issued details of its 'performance assessment criteria' (PAC) ahead of the busy contest season. There are 14 such criteria, originally derived by Alan Morrison and then discussed by ABBA's executive committee. The criteria are listed in alphabetical order.
 
Before I add my comments to the debate, I must confess at the outset that my only experience of the contesting scene in the past 37 years was to witness the superb performance by St Stythian's Band at last year's Bugle Contest. Nevertheless, as an interested by-stander, I find it interesting that agreement has been reached by the brass band fraternity on all the main components of a successful brass band performance. 

Presenting the criteria in alphabetical order suggests that each criterion is of equal value and should be scored accordingly. If that is the case, then the checklist approach to observing performance has really been developed into a fine art. Now this brings us to the nub of the matter. Do we value the measurable or do we measure the valuable? The checklist approach tends to support the former. 

An over-emphasis on ticking checklists can lead to important parts of a performance being missed altogether. Excellent performances which stick in the memory are often marked out by an X factor: the 'sparkle' of the GUS band in the 1960s, Kirsty Abbotts and Peter Moore today, the current Black Dyke percussion section, etc.  But where does this fit into the checklist approach?
 
Maybe it is worth looking at the application of performance assessment criteria in other fields. In ice skating, for example, judges give two sets of marks: one set for technical performance and one set for artistic merit. I would suggest that Alan Morrison's criteria could form a sound basis for assessing technical performance which, when augmented by the adjudicators' comments on artistic merit, would provide a more complete picture of a band's performance.
 
The second strand of Alan Morrison's thesis is that, when using PAC, competing bands in different sections would be restricted to a set 'highest mark' allocated to that section: 197 as the top mark for a Championship section band; 180 as the top mark for a Fourth section band. Now this proposal baffles me. What is the purpose of awarding marks to a band's performance? Should the mark be regarded as an absolute score to allow a comparison of the performances of Brisbane Excelsior scoring 198 points on Philip Wilby's "Vienna Nights" at the Queensland Open with that of Wingates scoring the same number of points on Benny Morris' "When The Dew Is On The Rhubarb I'll Come Sliding Back To You" on Whit Friday at Diggle?
 
Or is the purpose of awarding marks to allow a comparison to be made between the performances of bands playing a particular test piece on a particular day? In that case, why would it be helpful to adjudicators to get the rank order right by having fewer points to separate the competing bands? 197 marks to differentiate between 8 Championship section bands, but only 180 marks to differentiate between 20 Fourth section bands. Logic suggests otherwise.
 
The ABBA press release states that "the detail will be under constant review." I hope my observations will be useful to that process.
 
Dr Frank Hodgson
Guiseley, Leeds 

Well done David

I would like to add my congratulations to David Childs for a wonderfull performance at the Proms. Even better, to then see Father Robert pick his euph again. Brilliant
 
Simon Gresswell
Hove Edge 

Not the only one

Whilst David Childs was playing 'Carnival of Venice' at Swansea, Norfolk Wherry Brasses,  Ed Latham, was giving his own rendition at Stalham in  North Norfolk. An audience of over 100 people helped raise over £900 and gave Ed and the band a standing ovation. Musical Director Geoff Barber informed the audience that this could be Ed's last performance with Norfolk Wherry Brass as he is soon off to live in Australia! 

The concert was a resounding success and continues the progress of this excellent band which was only founded in 2004. They now look forward to the Norwich beer festival in October prior to a hectic Christmas programme. 

Geofrey Barber

'Nae trouble  “north of the Border” 

A nice literary touch to your latest Editorial (but it’s spelled ‘Earnest’ – otherwise it misses the point of the pun).

Thanks for recognising the good work being carried out in Scotland.  Our key Youth Development Strategy is being implemented by a grant funded Youth Development Officer (as you report) and is proving very successful.  We are also pressing ahead on other fronts to develop banding here.

However, your Editorial is no more accurate than your quotation, and reads too much into unrelated events.  For example, when Alan McLaren resigned as President 18 months ago because of business reasons, Peter Fraser (then Vice President) said he could not promise to take over as President for more than a year.  Incidentally, Peter is now our Events Manager, and Alan is giving a keynote speech at our Conference, so we’re not sure what you were implying.

As to being leaderless, our current Vice President, George Burt (who is architect of our Development Strategy and secured the funding for our Development Officer) is heading SBBA until the AGM in October.  In any case, SBBA is run by an active Executive Committee elected by the brass bands in Scotland, and rightly doesn’t rely on any one person.

Of course, we are bound to have problems, as with any organisation that is trying to push the boundaries, and there are some lively debates.  But you overstate these problems - Scottish banding is in good health and moving forward with a complete sense of optimism.  Maybe check with us next time, just to get the story right?

Anyway, thanks for mentioning us.  In the words of a (this time relevant) quotation from Oscar Wilde  “There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.” (/The Picture of Dorian Grey/, Ch 1).

John Martin
SBBA Executive 

Right limits at NYBB's

Thanks to Paul Kennington of Leeds and his comments on what he feels should be the correct age limit for members of youth bands. As he says, the National Youth Band of Great Britain, in his opinion, has the correct age limit, 19.

I would agree with him on that point, but the NYBB have the luxury of two residential courses in one year whereby our NYBBS (Scotland) and NYBBW (Wales) have only one.  Reason: Money, or lack of it.

So we at NYBBS make sure we give as many young players as we can, the opportunity of joining us for our annual course up in beautiful St. Andrews.  Our inspiring Course Director, Neil Cross, organised not one, but three youth bands this year, the Training Band, the Reserve Band and the cream of Scottish young brass players, the National Youth Band of Scotland, an eighty-strong wonderful outfit which repeatedly prove to be superb ambassadors not just for Scotland but also for the Band movement as a whole, and I know, when they visit Japan next July, they will inspire and give our Japanese brass colleagues something to aim for.

One hundred and seventy Scottish youngsters were at St. Andrews this August, all as keen as mustard to improve their standards, I couldn't say "Hey you, you are too old, go home!" to anyone, but they know when they have to go and the tears flow, but surely, the whole idea is to encourage these people to stay in the movement.

Banding at the moment is very finely balanced, encouragement is vital.

Richard Evans

Fantastic playing

We arrived home just in time to listen to the end David Childs playing at the Last night at the Proms.  What a fantastic young player he is and to hear him playing the duet from 'The Pearl Fishers' with is father was an absolute joy.  

I could hear Jussi Bjoerling and Robert Merrill singing as they were playing.
 
Well done to both of you on a lovely performance.
 
Jane and John Clay
Clifton and Lightcliffe Band 

Defunct in Wales

Concerning the newsdesk article on the decline of Welsh bands, I believe that quoted defunct Excelsior Ropes and Mellingriffith were the same bands who became Radyr band and are now City of Cardiff.
 
Mike Saunders 

Being safe isn't right

I read with interest your news story about relegation from the British Open. I would like to pass comment on the situation regarding Sellers. As I understand it, they are 'safe' for a year due to their re-qualification from the Grand Shield. How on earth can this be right? 

Bands like Brighouse, Hepworth and Rothwell have all beaten Sellers at the last TWO Opens, yet all three can be relegated this year whereas Sellers cannot because they were 'lucky' enough to get relegated and win an inferior competition (ok, the Shield is damn hard to get out of, but it is still one league below the Open in the hierarchy)!

This is in contrast to the area contests where promoted bands can, and have this year been, relegated in their first year after promotion, for example Drighlington. Winning the Shield is a good achievement, but it seems harsh on bands that have consistently beaten Sellers in the Open over the last couple of years that they actually find themselves worse off than them! It seems, to say the least, a little odd.

If, of course, this is incorrect and Sellers can indeed go down this year, please ignore!

H. Smythe, Chiswick. 

Bar Dyke!
 
If Black Dyke won the Open again this year and completed a hat trick I think they should be barred from the 2008 British Open - this is not a punishment towards Black Dyke in anyway at all. 

I think it is more of a celebration year that highlights the Band and conductor’s achievement over the last three years to the contest allowing Black Dyke to pay tribute towards all the other competing bands and conductors who make the contest possible, without all the other competitors, history and prizes would not be possible.

The last thing I would like to add is if Black Dyke were barred (if they win this year) the 2009 British Open would be buzzing in anticipation to see if the “Dogs” could retain there title after a year off.

This was last demonstrated at London in 1991 when Desford Colliery Caterpillar Band won in 1987/1988/1989 Hat trick (1990 barred) winners 1991 and runners up 1992.

It would have been amazing for Desford to have won five Nationals in a row if they also had won in 1990 rather then being barred, but I’m sure it would have been less exciting for the other bands and non Desford supporters to see the same band winning!

The barred year made the 1990 and 1991 Nationals really exciting as we saw another name CWS Glasgow on the cup 1990 and then the talking point in 1991 was what will Desford be like at the Nationals in 1991.

Alan Hobbins

Outdated custom

I have read with interest your comments on the British Open and the issue over hat tricks and the fact that the rules are silent on a band not appearing the following year if this rare achievement is attained. My understanding is that bands appear at the Open by invitation of the owners of the event ie Mr Mortimer. Thus if Black Dyke are fortunate enough to win then, as in previous occasions when a band has achieved a hat trick, they will not receive an invitation to compete next year but will do so the following year. It is an outdated custom and should be abolished as you argue in your editorial.
 
Tim Mutum
Ipswich 

If it ain't broke...

I realise that there should be an age limit to members of national "youth" bands but fail to see the logic of excluding a person if they are in full time employment, some people leave school to take up a job at 16 but they are still "youth" players.

In addition, what about the other end of the argument - the ones who go to college or university - are they to be excluded, even though they are not working? 19 is about the age these youngsters will be when they go into college so won't they benefit from the experience of playing with a National ensemble Band, Orchestra or any other?

This is just my opinion and I have no wish to start an argument, perhaps it's best to leave well alone - if it ain't broke don't mend it!
 
Barbara Robinson
Hirwaun 

Strange age ranges

Enjoyed the Editorial once again lads and agree with you over the different age ranges for youth. The same problem seems to arise I believe at the National Youth Championships too, with no real clear indication of criteria. 

Some bands it is alleged have even used a ‘liberal’ interpretation of the rules so that former players and members can return to play for that contest. That is not really in the spirit of things.

I know these bands serve as a recognition of excellence, but making them into something they are not does us all a disservice.

Ian Coles
Forest of Dean 

The Children's Act

I would just like to point out that in terms of your article in your September editorial you make mention of a certain “UK Children’s Act  (where) there is no legal definition of a youth although other legislation covers age ranges of ‘young people’ up to 25”.
 
Now I know that you have also indulged in a bit of Scot-bashing in your September editorial but despite the fear of this happening again, I would like to point out that there is no such thing as the UK Children’s Act. We in Scotland have our own legal system and processes (the fact might have escaped you) and also have our own Children (Scotland) Act of 1995. I am sure that if you had contacted the Development Officer of the much maligned SBBA, he would have made you aware of this. Please get your facts right gents.
 
And while we’re on the subject, why shouldn’t different organisations have a different definition of what a ‘youth’ is? These bands do not contest, so why the fuss?
 
Off my soap box now…………
 
Paul Drury (young at heart)

 The mystery cup

I think the cup you have was competed for many years ago around the time of the annual Yorkshire Miners Demonstration. The Demonstration was held in different towns each year:-Rotherham,Barnsley, Wakefield and Sheffield for definite, maybe others. 

Around the same week they held a Brass Band contest for mining bands. The demonstration committee would have provided that challenge cup for the contest. I have a feeling that the Demonstration Contest evolved into the Yorks versus Lancs contest.

Hope this helps or jogs someone else's memory.

Ken Vernon

Looking for a band

I am moving to London at the end of this year and will be looking for a brass band to join when I get over there. I currently play soprano with South Brisbane Federal in Queensland and played solo cornet for Brisbane XLCR for 5 years previous to that.

I will be studying trumpet in London and will most probably be living in South London. So not sure as to what is around the area or with in a reasonable travelling distance.

I would prefer to play in First grade or Championship grade if vacancies are there. Could you assist with some band names that are in the area that are of this level?

Thank you for your information in advance.

Nathan Schilling
nathan@jwc.net.au

4BR Reply:
I am sure people will now be in touch...

The right age for youth

Your Editorial for September makes a good point about age limits in respect to the different National Youth Bands. 

The National Youth Band of Great Britain has developed the correct criteria in my opinion, whilst the National Youth Bands of both Scotland and Wales, with less number of potential players to choose from have had to expand the age limits to ensure quantity and quality. 

Each organisation must choose the age limits it feels best suits its aims and objectives, but having ‘adult’ players who are in full time work (as has been the case both in Wales and Scotland I understand) is surely contrary to the ethos of what should be youth music making.  19 should be the cut off point.

Paul Kennington
Leeds 

Hat trick nonsense

The hat trick rule is a nonsense and I hope that if Black Dyke do win the British Open then it will be revoked and they will be allowed to defend their title in 2008. 

The rules concerning the hat trick have been in place for some time I know, but it is now an outdated concept.  Would people be happy not being able to see Roger Federer at Wimbledon just because he has won it for past few years? I don’t think so, so why is it we do it with brass bands?

Trevor Jepson
Hull 

Well done Derek

Derek Broadbent makes a welcome point to 4BR concerning those people who wish to complain about adjudicators. 

So many times we hear people whining about how they were ‘robbed’ or even ‘cheated’ out of what they believe was their rightful victory at a contest, without any real evidence to back up their argument.

Now, if they do honestly believe they have been poorly judged then they have recourse to a process to get it investigated.

I won’t hold my breath though that too many official letters will be sent to contest controllers. Judges do a fine job 99% of the time and fair minded players and supporters know this too well. If there is a real cause for concern, now they know what they have to do. Well done Derek for bringing it to everyone’s attention.

Helen Dickins 

Hammonds Sauce Band Australia Tour 1976

I wonder if anyone has details of the players in the above band, and if any are still active in the movement. I attended the concert in Melbourne, and was impressed with the young players, in particular the Principal cornet and flugel. Also, soprano who was older and ex Crossleys carpets I think.

I met a Tony Ryan (baritone) who played with my Dad, Ken Vine (bass trom... the Imps around 1960) at Leeds Model band. They were a great band with a very young membership, and it would be good to know if any of them reached any dizzy heights etc

Eric Vine
Melbourne, Australia 

The mystery Cup

We have found an old sterling silver cup, made in Birmingham (anchor hallmark) with a '1' hallmark beside it.  The cup was found/located in an learning disabilities day service, previously a large hospital, but not the Infirmary mentioned.
 
The writing reads: "Doncaster Royal Infirmary - Demonstration committee Band Contest Challenge Cup"
 
There is no plinth, but looks like there should have been one.  We would be interested if anyone out there could tell us a bit more.  I have attached a picture if that helps?
 
If you are able to put this on your news site, please edit as you see fit.  Thanks
 
Morag McKay-Ellison
Senior Charge Nurse
Prosper Centre

4BR Reply:
Can anyone help with this mystery?

^back to top