Comments ~ 2008: April

Lots more from the 4BR postbag as we prepare for the delights of Stavanger and Blackpool.

Out of character

Having read some of the comments around the posting by William Rushworth, I am prompted to add something to the discourse.

The idea that musicians have to stick to adhere to what is written on a page is completely out of character with the whole musical picture? Every dot on the page is merely a marker for the interpretation of sound and silence.

The idea that we treat music as a mathematical exercise is one of the reasons I believe that the band movement is stereotyped by the uninitiated and limited in its appeal to a wider audience.
 
Musicality appeals to people who can appreciate it and I have yet to meet an adjudicator who lacks musicality. Therefore, we have to accept that whilst people may like, disliking or being indifferent to the music we produce in a number of settings including competitions, we work on the premise that music is our interpretation of what we have experienced.

Otherwise what is the adjudicator to do; listen for exact tempi, tuning, intonation balance and the notes then say who came closest. For a conductor it is vital that you can read and hear the musical score otherwise you rely on other people’s recordings or the rehearsals to develop an interpretation.

Whilst there are very few people in the band movement who can hear a score it is still possible to work it out over time, then you have a far better chance of producing a musical interpretation.
 
Finally, bands have attracted musicians from outside the brass band movement with great success and with them come different slants on pieces.

Sometimes conductors and composers have had a very hard time at the hands of a stiff minded bands person simply because they close their minds to music that does not fir into the little box of band interpretation; remember Images by John McCabe, surely a masterpiece and the earlier Spectrum by Vinter.
 
Lets get the music off the page and interpret it in different ways within a broad framework. Surely that is the way forward. Might not win contests though!
 
Barry Pope
West Mercia Police Band 

Numbers are the problem?
 
I read with interest, your views on the problems in the First Section and beyond.
 
I would suggest that firstly, as far as possible, in each area the number of bands were equal. This would give a more accurate reflection of a band’s standards.
 
Or, have more bands in each section according to how many there are in that particular area.
 
I would be interested to read other contributors’ opinions.
 
N. Garman
St Albans 

Memory problems

Just read the article by Steve Perry from Wansbeck's Ashington. I refer to the last comment "By the way, we were higher than Lockwood last year at Harrogate as well................."

I've looked back at the results and Steve is quite right, Lockwood were 10th and Wansbeck's were 8th, but perhaps Steve forgot, they were in 2nd section last year, Lockwood were in 1st!! 

Fiona Shawcross     

Scouting problems              

Just wondering if its possible instead of having 3 talented youngsters on your scouting reports for each region, could you do a scouting report from each region with someone for each instrument?
 
It would then highlight some of the talented players that are deservedly good enough to be scouted but aren't feature or notice as much as they don't in many cases play a cornet.
 
Just a query that may work. 
 
Matt Hindle

4BR Reply:
We will see what we can do Matt, but at the moment its three talented players regardless of the instruments they play that we pick. 

Cranson autobiography?

I have heard that Colin Casson, ex principal BBC Welsh, Black Dyke, and Welsh Guards has written his autobiography.  I believe this is due for publication in April 2008, does anyone have any information?

Lawrence Killian

4BR Reply:
Nothing we know about at present, but someone out there may know? 

Sparring response

In response to "my friend and sparring partner" Janet from St Helens, may I simply say that I too had asked around for you after Blackpool but no body knew of you, also that I am at this stage thinking that you are fictitious because you have given the game away by telling us all that your husband is called Gordon (Gordon Bennett?). 

You even had CLOSE sight of our remarks even down to the tick boxes which you would only have seen if you were a member, or associate of the band, so time to "fess up" up "Janet" who are you really?

On a sadder note, I have decided to leave Farnworth & Walkden after many happy years to pursue banding nearer home. (But you probably know this already eh?)

Looking forward to many more "rounds" with you in the future.

Jim Owen

It's Not All Doom & Gloom 

I found, as I'm sure many of your readers did, reading your editorial with the numbers you quote of bands involved in the regional contests worrying, at least at a national level.

Locally, and I write from a part of the country North Buckinghamshire which can hardly be described as at the traditional centre of things brass, the banding scene looks much less disturbing, although there is still room for improvement.

As a kid I remember our corner of the county having 3 contesting bands all in the 4th Section, and I recall Bletchley, Great Horwood and Newport Pagnell having non-contesting bands although Newport Pagnell band did fold. So - 6 bands, 3 contesting in the 4th section - and very little going on in schools.

Since then the council Music Service started its own contesting band, Stantonbury Brass, now operating in the 2nd section, and the service supports numbers of brass groups and ensembles; several local comprehensive schools run brass groups, and I even know of one local First School with 17 brass players all under 8!

My own band, MK Brass, now contests in the Championship Section and its development organisation contests in the 4th Section. Current tally in Milton Keynes/North Bucks is 8 bands, of which 5 are contesting; standards are higher and a wealth of learning activity goes on in bands, schools and via the Music Service, and the audience for brass music locally seems to be growing.

Brass Band nirvana? No. Room for improvement? Yes - particularly in the area of funding and developing links from education-linked bands into the community bands.

But in this area, at least, it is not a message of doom and gloom, rather one of steady growth, despite the competition from other sources of entertainment, which didn't exist when my banding career started.

I would close by observing that, while it's clearly important, contesting is not the only measure of the health of banding - there are many non-contesting bands which serve their members and communities very well and give pleasure to thousands.

Can we get contest participation up?

Emphatically yes, but only once we are prepared to look at how other musical organisations outside UK banding run contests with an open mind and recognise that formats developed to suit the social and artistic environment of the mid-1800s might not be meeting the needs of potential participants in the 2000s.

Why not start by asking those who don't compete why they don't or why they stopped?

Dave Johnston
Milton Keynes

Depressing editorial

How depressing that, in your linked April editorials on the 'problems' facing the 'movement', your focus should be entirely on contest statistics, structure and administration.  

How depressing that in editorials on the health of the 'movement', the word  'music' appears not once in 1,000 words.
 
Inevitable, I suppose, but still deeply, deeply depressing.
 
Jim Yelland
Hinckley 

Not fit for purpose

Just read your article on, ‘Not fit for purpose’, about First Section bands.

For many years there were only 4 sections, and it was a bit of good luck if one of the fancied bands qualified for the national finals from their respective area competitions.

New and imaginative ways of qualifying had to thought up - hence the formation in 1992 of the First Section. The more fancied bands had less competition and more chance of playing at the national finals, and also qualifying for the European Championships, although it did give more bands a chance of playing at a National Final by forming the new First Section.

So, you get a number of bands quite happy to plod along in the First Section knowing that the jump to championship is too great and must be paid for in blood, sweat and tears, and many hours spent rehearsing test pieces to death for the joy of a not getting a result at the area contests.

Clive Purnell
Notts

Biased reporting 

Having played in the North of England First Section, it was encouraging to see the friendly banter when Iwan Fox from 4BR was invited onto the stage to have a few words with our regional panel of brass band officianados.

However, when I read the retrospectives, I couldn’t help but think, was he actually in the contest hall at all?

After everyone else had their say, it was a pleasure to hear the adjudicator give some positive comments about the NE of England being the most musical area and conductors interpretations of James Cook had actually stepped up to the mark.

As my subject is "unbiased opinions", can you, or we, as you wish to call yourselves at 4BR take note that Kirkbymoorside and Wansbeck’s Ashington were the bands placed 1st and 2nd by the adjudicator to represent the area at Harrogate.

You appear to be running a John Roberts appreciation society in your retro.

I have played in bands for umpteen years and taken the rough with the smooth with adjudicator’s decisions. But since the invention of your wonderful website, you seem to have, in my opinion, become VERY biased towards Mr. Roberts.

We at Wansbeck’s have attended the National finals for the last 3 years and have got there on merit. I have also played against bands that have been conducted by John and fallen foul at some of these contests - the worst result was possibly Butlins this year when John’s band won and we were about 20th.

On that particular day, our soloists were outstanding and I'm afraid to say, some people’s opinions didn't have them 19 places ahead of us (that's banding I suppose).

I follow your comments on contests and retros, but come on, if you had your way, I'm sure for the national finals you'll predict the band that Mr. Roberts is conducting to be placed first and then a list of also rans.

John’s a fine musician and conductor and some might say a fine adjudicator in their opinion, that’s all – their opinion. Have a bit of time and praise for Nigel Stedman, Wansbeck’s conductor who rang the secretaries from winning bands of the South East areas to find out what adjudicators liked and wanted.

Guess what? Tempos and dynamics! Guess what Mr Hardy said about our performance? That's right, "good tempos, good dynamics, excellent solo cornet and trombones, a few blips which cost you in the long run but otherwise a very musical well interpreted reading of James Cook. Well done conductor.”

He's actually taken us to Harrogate as 3rd section winners, 2nd section winners and this year as 1st section runner up, beaten by one point.

As I said earlier this was an adjudicators decision of 7 performances. Not the performance that Mr. Fox heard through cotton wool ears, to quote that "Lockwood for us were better all round, with a performance that had much more individual and ensemble security."

You also wrote: “Wansbeck’s left an impression that this was a performance that could well feature highly – and it did of course (although perhaps one place to high for us)” - again your OPINION.

Come on 4BR, get your act together and give credit when it's due.

There is more than John Roberts and his bands out there. By the way, we were higher than Lockwood last year at Harrogate as well...............

Steve Perry 

Seething

I am an avid reader of 4BR and particularly comments.

I am seething about the not-so-veiled accusations made by Janet Bennet against Barry Thompson at the Tameside contest!

She clearly does not know two things - 1. If you decide to be borderline libellous of an adjudicator, choose a more likely candidate than Barry. If you had the pleasure of knowing him, you would not blether in such a naive way about a good, experienced musician and gentleman.

2. That when you enter a contest you put yourself up to be judged, if you don't like the result, don't do it again - better still get trained, experienced and respected enough to become an adjudicator!

Oops forgot - 3. Try listening to bands eyes shut, seriously, it really opens the musical ears to everything.
 
Gordon Eddison 

It's only a game

Just to say that Gareth Westwood’s comments on contesting are, in my opinion, absolutely straight to the heart of the matter.

Contesting is a game.

It's not a sport where first past the post is the obvious winner. It's a lottery where one judges winner can be another judges loser. A contest result can be felt as unfair or fair, and be greeted with despair or euphoria.

So why do we do it?
1) We have a chance of glory?
2) It's a great day out?
 
A bit of both I reckon, but all in all, it should be just the fun side of a hobby.
 
Ian Wilkinson 

Ringing in the surprises

As far as your comments about the results of the Championship section at NABBA.

I believe all bands were reviewed fairly with, somewhat, realistic placement.

However, you are right about the "surprises" of the event. With so many new faces in the bands.  I'd say some went out of their way and brought in a few "ringers" just for the event.
 
Johnny Brass
NABBA Member 

Thanks Dyke

Just viewed and listened to the Black Dyke concert in Leeds live on the net.

I really enjoyed this and what an innovation, being able to experience an occasion such as this from anywhere in the world. I must thank everybody involved with this project.
 
David Robb 

First last?

Just wondered why you list the comments on the your comments page with the newest comment first on the list.

It means that if someone answers a previous comment you have to trawl through to find the original comment.

Would it not make more sense to put the oldest at top of the page as in other forums?

Brian Deans

4BR Reply:
We think this is the easiest way to present the comments at present  Brian - although we will have a look to see if there is another way in which we can do it in the near future 

Don't be afriad to ask!

With regard to letter from Pauline Bateman and the young members of her band travelling in the hope of an early draw to enable them to play at the contest and then fulfil a County Orchestral performance.  

Why did they travel in the ‘hope’ of an early draw ?

Why didn’t the band contact Alan Hope, Contest Controller, and request an early draw?

Regional Secretaries/Contest Controllers are not ogres.  We will consider a reasonable request and assist a band if at all possible.

I had a similar request at the Yorkshire Regional this year.  I will not automatically give any band the No.1 but with the permission of all the delegates at the draw, Nos. 1 to 4 were put in the bag and the requesting delegate draw No. 3

The band were happy, the youngsters were happy, they played at St. George’s and then went on to fulfil their school commitments and the rest of the band delegates were pleased to help knowing the circumstances.

It’s simple – don’t be frightened to ask – we are there to help and work together.

Peggy Tomlinson
Yorkshire Regional Secretary 

Alan Dunford remembered 

SWT Woodfalls Band would like to add its sincere condolences to family and friends on the death of Alan Dunford.
 
Alan joined SWT Woodfalls Band in 1993 and played bumper-up for seven years.  He provided the power for the cornet section throughout that period - playing for hours on end without ever experiencing any stamina issues.
 
Alan's lively, larger than life, personality meant that there was never a dull moment when he was around.  Many a conductor arrived at Woodfalls with a stern reputation but Alan could crack them in no time at all.  They could not resist his humour and would forgive him and us anything because of it!
 
Alan felt the call of family and village commitments and returned to play for Shrewton, his village band where his family was firmly ensconced with brothers and nephews etc., all doing their bit to push the band towards its most recent successes.
 
Alan was the kind of guy that could get away with all sorts, he always had a funny comment and enjoyed a good party - always being the first one to arrive and the last one to leave!  If you were within fifty yards of Alan you knew he was there - he was like a street entertainer, loads of funny stories and a huge personality.
 
He was one of a kind, the West of England has lost a big character and fine cornet player!
 
Brian Easterbrook
SWT Woodfalls Band 

It's only a game

I have read pages and pages of comments regarding contests both on this site and another well known band forum and would like to make a few observations if I could be so humble.
 
Now its not in my, or my bands culture to rant on about things publicly but, hey, I've got a little time on my hands.
 
4BR, I have the deepest sympathy for you.  I mean what are you supposed to do?? Your either slated for being to PC or given unrivalled amonts of stick for 'taking the *!'@ out of a bands playing.
 
I cannot believe that when contesting, bands and their membersare willingly putting themselves up to be judged and then get upset when they are not judged in the way they wanted to be.
 
Yes some comments on might cause offense to a sensitive child who's been playing for 2 years and really not that confident... but this is banding. I played for bands when I was younger that got slated and behold, yes, I'm still playing.  It didn't give me a life time complex either.
 
When you play for an 'adult' contesting band you're really putting yourself up to be judged.  Not just by the guy in the box, but the audience, your fellow bandsmen and the band press.  Its part of the whole experience.  Sure, there are some situations in which competing isn't as important as the experience in provides and equally situations where negative comments can be distructive. Such events as youthband contests etc, but 4BR DO take these situations into account and, from what I can see, are sensitive enough when commenting on these events.
 
However, the moans and groans normally come from the folk in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd sections (and even the top section in some cases).  By then we are surely big and ugly enough to take these sorts of things on the chin aren't we and in the spirit they are written.
 
I guess the overriding statement in this rant is, 'Get over it!'.
 
We all love the praise when we do well but some of us can't stomach it when it doesn't go our way!  'Its only a game' (or a band contest in our case).
 
Anyway, rant over.

Gareth Westwood

Good spoof, but good ideas too...

Yes you did catch me out with the pre-drawn contest spoof. We had been discussing something similar without the rating aspect in our band at the weekend. 

We play in the North region and were at Darlington on Saturday the 31st. Our complaint is that we arrived for the 4th Section at 10.30 for the draw. We played 7 at 3pm. Some of the younger members of the band had a County orchestral concert in the afternoon so they were driven the hour and a half to the Dolphin centre in the hope that we may have had an early draw so that they could get back in time. We were not drawn early enough and they wasted the fuel for the car journey.
 
We suggest two options:

That the sections for the regionals are put into two halves so that the first half knows that they must get there for the early draw and the others can delay the journey for a few hours to arrive well in time to play.

These two halves could be changed annually and other bands could be placed at random into either group. It would not be pre-drawn so that nobody would know the draw order before the day.

A straight pre-draw in the week before the contest to prevent the circumstance which has occurred to Kirkby Lonsdale on several occasions when we played almost last after spending  5 hours hanging round waiting to play.

By the time we did play we were fed up and so did not play our best.
 
Pauline M Bateman 

Merit in avoiding the big guns

Good April 1st hoax, however I think there is merit in considering a mini-version at the British Open. Let the band that did not qualify (3rd placed usually) in the Grand Shield, play No 1 at the Open.

This would let another band “have a go”, let the adjudicators get a feel for the piece and the acoustics, and avoid any danger of one the “big guns” having to run the gauntlet of the dreaded “No 1”.
 
 
Alan Gwynant 

Two out of three ideas wasn't bad!

Following your coverage of the revolutionary new draw technique, having done extensive research and SWOT analysis of the problem and solution myself and my research team have decided on a solution.
 
Firstly in the morning of the contest have a draw to see when each band will play. 

Secondly, have a draw to see what placing each band will attain.

Thirdly - PUB!
 
John North 

Thanks!

Many thanks for your retrospective of my band and my conducting at the NOE area contest last weekend. The bands first contest in 5 or so years and my first contest as a conductor.

Many thanks for your useful positive comments...although I do hope you realise the players at Reg Vardy (my current band) will never let me live this comparison down.
 
 
Jonathan Fenwick 

A Little Prayer
 
In reply to a message from James Holt in last month's comments, Evelyn Glennie's A Little Prayer for solo marimba is one of the three pieces in her book Three Chorales for Marimba available from most sheet music suppliers including musicroom.com and ev-ms.co.uk.
 
Dave Danford 

Can't understand it...

I recently attended the Tameside Open Contest and in particular those of the Fourth Section. May I say what a good turn out even though one or two had withdrew.

Now here is the gripe. We were told that the results for this section would be announced after the third section had finished (nothing like keeping you in suspense).

The results were then announced directly after the section had finished just while some of us were getting the world famous full English while waiting for the third section to start.

My next moan is the adjudicator, I listened to some really good performances those of Blackburn and especially Farnworth and Walkden their euphonium player (Jim Owen) and soprano cornet player played excellent solos and the rest of the band were spot on.

In the results they were 5th a little surprising to say the least and on the remarks were written “fine soprano at 4” and “fine euphonium” as well as well balanced etc. in the box at the bottom solos were ticked as fair.

So what I cant understand is the inconsistencies of Mr. Thompson’s remarks not to put to much of a point on it but nothing tallies up you are either fine or fair he also mentioned a bad opening, this was a rock solid opening.

The question is was he really listening to what was going on or was it twaddle to fill a page while he was reading the paper or was it that because he knew who the bands were a little local favouritism was shown.

All in all a good day was had but this just marred it a little especially as this was the last ever contest to be held at this venue. Even my husband Gordon, who usually is quite a placid guy was a little surprised by Mr. Thompson’s summing up as he said, “if he was my lawyer I will take my chance with the other side”

Keep up the good work

Janet Bennet
St. Helens 

Keep gob shut!

May I refer to my good friend and sparring partner Mr. Jim Owen, of the Farnworth and Walkden band letter.

I can understand that the two heads theory would work in principal, one could listen to the actual music being played and the other could wheedle out bum notes and fluffing.

What would also work is an inside man who could mark their own bands performance, with the stage being tight and extracting his elbow from the next man down and not to mention the concentration in playing this “not very taxing” piece. I am a little surprised how he can say that the band did not play as well as a n other band, this is taking multi tasking to the limit and dispels the myth that only women can multi task.

Going back on to the choice of test piece “get over it” bands have been going to this contest for years some get relegated and some promoted. After your remit about this being an easy piece your attitude should be why did the band not win and why was my performance not 100%?

As we all know complacency breeds contempt and I think you neglected to read the bandsman giving every band hints that the adjudicator was looking for dynamics, tuning and tempo.

I did hang around after to see Jim and congratulate him on his dulcet tone but he seemed to have disappeared into the mist. As one great sage put it “how can you soar like an eagle while surrounded by turkeys”.so its less of “vive le Blackpool” more of lets knuckle down and as my grandmother used to say “there is no such thing as an easy test.

Its only easy when you know what you are doing” or put another way “keep gob shut until you have won” and on that note best wishes to Eagley Band

Janet Bennet  

Good laugh

I had a good laugh at Paul Dickens’ letter about his enjoyment of his ‘armchair contest’ from Brisbane. I have to say though that this is not a new concept.

The BBC did it for some time back in the ‘60s. It was called ‘Challenging Brass’ and was a weekly programme that broadcast a pre-recorded programme of music from one competing band each week. The programme would contain a set piece (to give the poor adjudicators half a chance!).

I cannot remember how many weeks each contest would go on for but I DO remember making sure that I didn’t miss a single broadcast!
 
The obvious benefits were that listeners listened in comfort of course, but perhaps more importantly the performances were recorded professionally so that adjudicators weren’t having to contend with dodgy acoustics along with all the other difficulties of ‘sorting ‘em out’.
 
I seem to remember that it didn’t attract the really big names of the time but the bands were well chosen and the competition was hot!  Luton, Parc & Dare, Hanwell, & Cresswell Colliery spring to mind as contenders, with Hanwell, under the great Eric Bravington often crossing the finishing line first.
 
I have great memories of those times along with a great sadness – I recorded every broadcast on tape but never thought to keep the recordings……………. Damn!

And yes, Gilbert Vinter’s ‘Challenging Brass’ was composed specially for the series. Gilbert worked for the BBC at the time.
 
Roger Pearcey.
Suffolk. 

Apologies to the North East
 
Please accept my apologies for forgetting that one of my favourite areas are still had to hold their area, and thank you to Michelle Garbutt for pointing this out.

I had forgotten the North East like late surges, football teams who have last minute management changes to save their premiership status, and a very late entry into first class cricket.

You may be the smallest region, but I am sure you are just as important as any other are to the brass band movement
 
John Stirzaker 

The 2008 April Fool 

The ones we caught out...

Fantastic idea - don't know why anyone didn't think of it sooner!!

This way the players from the good bands get to lie on longer and do some shopping in London before they have to arrive for warm up and registration.

It will also mean that bus drivers don't have to worry about their "hours" as they will be able to plan what time they leave the hotel and not worry about stopping off at the pub on the way back!

Someone suggest it to the Premier League - that way ManYoo get the trophy without having to play dull teams like Fulham, Bolton, Middlesborough...etc.
 
Chris Freaney
Houston, Texas

Welcome new innovation...

I personally welcome this new innovation if applied to all sections.

The highest ranked bands playing later seems to fairer and avoids bands who only enter the regionals getting a late draw by luck and possibly meaning a more active band being drawn number 1 and having to rehearse at 8am in the morning!

A time when no band is at its best!

Of course another solution would be to have sections at different venues therefore starting later,a system which some regions do already. There is no easy answer to this problem but I welcome the new innovation lets give it a chance.

Paul Wilkinson

It's a winner...

I recently read the new Nationals 2009 "drawing" concept. On the outside it seems fine to base the draw on a reverse order of band rankings. Then someone went and wrote this in the article

"It's a winner. They concluded: "The audience will be able to buy at ticket for the second half of the contest only and we will only have to employ the judges for half of the contest. It's a great formula and the highest ranked bands have already given their support. It's a winner. Nobody will be able to complain that the best bands haven't won now!"

Why not continue to save money and time buy only hiring the hall for the 2nd half of the day?

It seems pointless to have 10 bands compete in the morning knowing that they a pre determined not to win. If you will only sell tickets to the second half, the first bands will be performing in an empty hall!

If this is the case, why bother having a field of 20 bands in the first place? Cut it back to 10 bands, creating more competition to get into the top 10 ranking position and higher quality band performances...

I (and many others) could go on and on and on about this, but I won't. As good as these new ideas are, they are also flawed.

Am I saying that it won't work? No! I honestly would love to see how this system will actually work, not just being theorised on paper or computer screen.

If it is a better system, fantastic. If not, then we continue to evolve in a different direction.

I guess this is an example of "you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time"

John Szkutko
Brisbane XLCR

PS. How will NOT JUDGING the first half of the bands effect the world rankings? What continuous effect will this have in the long term? 

And the ones we didn't...

Back to the drawing board...

Great idea about the Nationals doing away with the draw - about flippin time as well. 

What a waste of time having to sit through really bad bands that are never going to win, or even come close, especially off an early draw. 

It has lots of advantages including all the listeners and the members of the good bands being able to have a long lie in on the morning of the contest without the usual 6.00am rise to scoff down a full English then rush off to throw it all up again after/during a 6.30am rehearsal.

However, I think you have hit on another (possibly better) idea when you mention Formula 1.  Why not use the same model and have a qualifier, or 2 days of qualifiers.  That way everyone in the contest has to play the test piece on the Friday and the Saturday before the big event on the Sunday. 

The adjudicators mark them in order of merit with the band coming first playing last on the day and so on until the Scottish bands are left to play 1st and 2nd.  This gives the really good bands the chance to not only have an extra couple of rehearsals but also get used to the acoustic of the hall.  It will also give the adjudicators a chance to work out which way up the score is supposed to go!

Only problem with this of course is how do you decide who plays first on the qualifying days!!!

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Yes I did know it was an April fool. Yes, I am Scottish so I am allowed to take the p*s*!!

Colin D. Gallagher

The results would be...

What about we scrap the results as well and just give the prizes out to the top 6 bands in the  rankings or even better let 4barsrest predict the result then get it spot on for once! ha ha  ha!
 
I wonder if this might be the 2008 4barsrest National Finals result according to professors Fox and Banwell:

1.  Cory
2. Tredegar
3.  BTM
4.  Uncle Nicks Band... sorry I meant Black Dyke
5.  Grimethorpe - gotta keep the yorkies happy
6.  The Dark Horse Band ! They never win anything so lets give them a cup!
 
Hey only kidding, but you'd do it if you thought you could get away with it!!!
 
Kev Donaldson
 
ps. You must try harder with the April Fools thing !!!

4BR Reply: 
Tredegar just second...

Enjoyable even in New Zealand...

Enjoyed the little sojurn into Formula One by Brass Banding today - 1st April. 

Of course being in New Zealand we get the jokes before anyone else - even though we are upside down !
 
Still laughing!
 
Owen Melhuish
Auckland

 
Nice try

Come on guys, I can't believe anyone would be taken in by this on 1st April…… 

Can you imagine the hue and cry if this were to happen, my goodness we need a shake up I agree but this would be suicide for the movement.

Nice try!!

Jane Clay
Clifton and Lightcliffe Band

Very funny...

Very very very funny 4-bars!!
 
As though they are ever going to scrap the draw and let the highest rank bands play last.
 
"it will mean the bands who know they haven’t got a chance can play early and then sit and listen to the better bands beat them." Don't you mean play first get to the bar first!!!!
 
Never mind better luck next year in trying to fool us.
 
Andrew Street

Nice one...

Nice one - I had to read it twice and then realized what date it was!!!

Laura Hobbins

Great gag

Great April Fool’s gag chaps

Phil Sharples

only just...

Ha ha.  You had me fooled... for a paragraph.

Lesley Richmond  

A proper adjudication process


Having competed in the Regional Contests for the first time in more years than is decent, having read the 4BR comments column, and having spent most of the intervening years writing computer software, I decided to look for a proper adjudication process.

Actually it isn’t too hard. Instead of an Adjudication Person (or several) in a Box making their subjective decisions we need a proper electronic process.

We need to sit each player in front of a microphone attached via an analogue to Digital converter to a computer, which would record the performance.

Yes, I know we would need to carry portable percussion to a mike rather than hitting it where it resides, and that some venues may not be suitable as a recording studio. (Mind, I do understand that very few leak these days and the last recorded case of on stage hypothermia in the 4th section is now but a distant memory.)

The computer would then apply a barrage of Fast Fourier Transforms, Envelope Analysers and such techniques to quantify the performance to give a mathematical description.

The description will give objective information on tempo, dynamic, ensemble, balance and intonation for the band and each player, for each note of the score. This description would then be compared to a perfect description obtained from a scan of the score.

Where discrepancies occur points would be deducted from a theoretical maximum mark to give an objective result for each band. A printout could be obtained for each band and player to help for the next contest.

This will revolutionise contesting once some basic parameters have been defined.

By the way, how loud is forte?

Chris Hardy  

Spot on maturity

I have been reading with interest all the correspondence relating to the retrospectives written by Iwan Fox for the L&SC First Section and some of them were particularly amusing. Surely other bandsmen can see that the tongue is firmly placed in the cheek. 

I was the percussionist mentioned in dispatches playing for Horsham Borough band but I am not writing to blow my own trumpet (as that is not what I do!) but to pick up on the point made about the Band being rather elderly .... "a mature looking band delivered a mature performance".
 
I was wondering whether anyone knew of any player playing at any of the regional contests this year who was older than our own Fred (Freddie) Woods - who was 82 last December and has been around the brass banding scene for over 70 years. 

Also our front row cornets have amassed over 200 years of playing experience between the four of them.
 
Yes - so all in all - we are a 'mature' band!
 
Geoff Clarke
Horsham Borough Band  

Sad humour 

Clearly for some people then, an important part of the enjoyment of contesting is taking the p**s out of other bands and their playing ability.  

My sense of humour is in perfect working order, but if the public mocking of fellow amateur musicians is now considered an acceptable sport on 4BR "the world's most visited brass website", then that's very sad indeed. 

Pete Scrowther 

Own offer

Having read the comments regarding this year's 'areas' (and I know there is still one to go) I would like to offer my own retrospective.

4barsrest coverage is second to none - OK, you might not like, agree with or find funny some of the comments made by the contributors.

But I believe 4BR gives (and allows US to give via the 'comments' pages) a broad view of the brass banding scene - unlike some other parts of the music media who are usually ingratiating and take themselves far too seriously.

We should keep, what is for most of us anyway, our hobby into perspective (given global warming and a rise in knife crime) and take it on the chin.

Yes, I have been very disappointed at results and the quality of adjudicators, particularly concerning remarks that don't actually give a guide to future improvement, and venues - but I get over it and I keep on coming back year after year to do it all again!

On that subject, I made a, welcome, return to Stevenage and the L & SC after several years playing for a Midlands area band. I know I should get help but I actually like contesting - especially the social side.

I went on both days (I do only live 15 mins away after all) and met up with people I haven't seen for many many years - it was great. Whilst the Gordon Craig venue isn't perfect, the sports hall is as dry as a TUC biscuit, at least all sections are in one venue with all the facilities.

I also enjoyed Butlins in January - and I will go next year even if my band does not compete.

So to answer my title question - am I? You know where to find me, so answers on an (e-mail) post card please.

Julia Crask.

PS - I'm not alone; there is a bass player friend of mine who enjoys contests too!!!! 

Generous comments

Thank you very much for your generous comments about Porthleven Town Band following their gallant effort at the recent Western Area Regional Contest.

I would like to give you a bit of a background on their recent history for your information. My role is taxi driver / father and general 'roadie' and am not musical at all so you will excuse my lack of knowledge of the correct terms.

Three years ago they were a flourishing fourth section band. Following the unfortunate death of their MD Francis Evans and the subsequent loss of many of their experienced players Steve Wearne took over the baton.

It proved very difficult to attract new, experienced players but the remaining players including many youngsters of junior school age continued for a couple of seasons including the 2006 regional contest. To Steve's great credit, those youngsters continued to improve but, for various reasons, he decided to stand down in January 2007 when Francis Ralph took over after being MD of the band previously.

Still finding it difficult to attract new players Francis promoted from the Training band under the guidance of Chris Harris.

The younger players are still loyal to the band including Caitlin, age 12, principal cornet, Rozsa, 14/15, soprano, Amy, 16, principal trombone, Sophie, 13, main horn player, Chloe, 11/12, flugel, Kristina, 17 main something else, together with 4 or 5 other 10 - 13 year olds filling other positions.

Then there is the percussion section who played at the contest which, until 6 months ago was non-existent: Led by Justin aged 8 of 6 months playing experience assisted by George, 8 with 2 months playing and slightly more mature Lynne of 2 months playing also. In fact over half  of the band had no previous contest experience.

Please feel free to press your delete button but I just felt that I would like to share this with you.

Incidentally, should you ever find out the identity of the 'baby with the rattle' please let us know as there is probably a place in our percussion section for them.

Tony Strike 

Longest National Anthem

Paul will forgive me if I am incorrect….but his was the only national anthem of the day!
 
That’s me for a kicking at the next rehearsal…hope he had a nice holiday!
 
J Corrigan (Kirkintilloch)  

PC Horror!

I have just read with horror an article in the Bandsman regarding the North Yorkshire County Council's incredibly stupid and shortsighted decision to ban brass bands who have children under the age of 16 in them to perform at public engagements. 

Apparently the Tewit Youth Band were invited to perform  for HRH Prince of Wales at the opening of the newly refurbished Royal Hall in Harrogate, but near the eleventh hour they were informed by NYCC that the Children & Young Persons Act of 1933 would be infringed unless all the under 16's had been granted a licence!

 Not only that, but the band would have to have at least 3 chaperones to accompany the band ALL of who would have to have had a criminal records background check as well!

Just what in the name of heaven is this PC (politically correct) mad world coming to?

This should be stamped down upon hard by the powers that be at BFBB.  Just where would our bands be if we could not get young players to learn on the back row or with junior or youth bands before promoting up to the senior band?

If this is allowed to escalate, then young players will not continue with their musical education if they are to be prohibited from playing the music they spend weeks rehearsing with the band.

I am so enraged by this that I find myself speechless at the incredulity of it all.

Yours in wonderment of it all,

Jim Owen 

1969 British Open

Re: the query as to where Dyke came on Spectrum at the 1969 Open.

I seem to recall that we, Imps, were a bit miffed that Dyke had beaten us, and we were 8th.

I remember it because a good friend of mine was playing Bass Trom for them and we had a bit of friendly rivalry at contests.

He didn't gloat, but I remember feeling a bit "Dischuffed"

Ah well, it was all a very long time ago!!

Ian Wilkinson 

Slightly different...

A correspondent wanted to know in what possition did Black Dyke finish up in the 1969 British Open Championship: 1st Grimethorpe Colliery Band (George Thompson)  2nd Carlton Main Frickley Colliery Band (Robert Oughton)  3rd The Fairey Band (Harry Mortimer)  4th Black Dyke Mills Band (Geoffrey Brand).                       

Keith Stanley James Lever. 

Simone Rebello

I have been involved in a number of concerts where Simone Rebello has played this solo on Marimba.
 
Try her, she is always very helpful.
 
Go on to Back Beat Percussion website and you can email Simonne from there.
 
Give her a few days to get back to you as she is always very busy.
 
Nigel Birch
Lions Youth Brass

^back to top